Dirk.. the problem may as well be in communication and not in definition of terms … but modern day organizational practices places an overly perverted importance on protocols. Protocols that make the message thinner and thinner as it travels from a source to a designer making even the most clearly communicated ideas dilute. These are the same protocols that say ‘ a designer should never be in front of the client’ – almost written in stone.

I guess summing it all up – my point is that in an organization that deals with creative solutions – commuincation is often replaced by translation and in the process much is lost.

I have also realized over my previous few comments that perhaps it was unfair of me to put both ‘fine art’ and ‘commercial art’ in the same basket – as both are subject to different limitations .. i suppose

sigh.. the eternal battle continues.

WORDS DO COME AFTER IMAGES ! – i infinitely agree and that along with ‘SHOW! DONT TELL’ will be my mantra from now on !

Thanks a lot for that dirk ! really appreciate your comment !
Looking forward to more comments from you in the future :)

thats EXACTLY what im talking about.
‘State of the art ‘ – my ass

whatever did you do after keef ? just curious… did you suck your tummy in and hope to get lucky with the design ? or hunt the client down and pin him down and go ” LISTEN PUNK!! ”

:P

funny thing is .. today its obviously my friggin clients who is obviously the all mighty and most powerful … SO WHEN THEY SAY THEY WANT MODERN !! i obviously have to bend over backwards and figure out what @#$@$#$@! MODERN MEANS !

wtf !!?? :P

The problem does not lie in the choice of style. It lies in the absence of a clear-cut goal.

But, truth is – clear cut goals exists in contemporary art i.e global matters of importance.

Hmm…perhaps the issue here lies in treating commercial art differently from fine art, and understanding the fact that the latter is more personal an art form than the other.

Hence my verdict is .. since commercial art is a non personal artform – it should be more grounded by scientific definitions that are absolute, factual and objective. Until such a glossary of terms and definitions can be devised — this state of flux will persist.

gollee… im dizzy … i really need that mocha now :)

PRECIIIZZEELY!! well put ish!
so what we are saying is that ‘Modern’ is relative to the sentiments and style of the era that preceeded it and essentially every era of art has been ‘Modern’.

We can’t judge modern quantitatively and scietifically as we can assess size and weight. One can ask ‘How Heavy?’ but not ‘How Modern?’ And as you pointed out, ‘Modern’ is relative and for it to be understood precisely, we either need a point of reference or give all those gulity of its indiscriminate ‘absolute’ use – a spanking on their bottoms :P

But Ish, there is a distinct difference between ‘Modern’ and ‘Modern Art’ – and they shouldnt be confused for one another, for one is merely an adjective and the other is a name given to a period of art ( more specifically a period that ended in the 1970s ). Ironically enough, Modern Art is a thing of the past :)

What has come after ‘Modern Art’ was Post Modernism and what we have now in the 21st C is Contemporary Art

The dillema and frustration of the 21st Century artist lies not in the definition of ‘Modern Art’ … but instead it is in the definition of what is considered ‘modern’ within the period of Contemporary Art !

geeesh…. i have no idea if i am getting through here. ARGH!.. why couldnt they call ‘Modern Art’ something else !!!??? it would have been so much easier to explain what i mean !! :(

I believe that when i was instructed to come up with a modern piece of design – it had more to do with producing design that would be perceived as ‘new and fresh’ by a client who i had never met… and that proves to be an impossibility since i was personally unaware of his exposure to art&design and as you aptly put that — “this is perhaps due to the perception that everyone is cognizant and part of a collective paradigm that promotes indisputable, stock ideas about concepts ”

Just thought id wind this up with a brief definition of Contemporary Art because in no way should it be confused with Modern Art. Although the mechanics of both are similar, the latter is more global and engages with issues that presently affect the world such as Cloning, Politics, Human rights, DEFORESTATION (and perhaps even many other enviroment related problems that you have encountered in Indonesia)

Talk about tangent !! huh ?:P

I went from complaining about an incident at work to the definition of Contemporary Art :P

Whats more important though — is would you consider soya milk in your cafe mocha ?? and can you not make it to Paris for coffee instead ?? :P

Now about the coffee trip, arrange for a tall, skim cafe mocha to be delivered to Ithaca NY. And no need for brownie points. Brownies however, will do nicely. :-P